I saw that kid Spinks bust his ass the last time in Vegas.
Oh, he got way too confident, boy.
You should've seen that face when he left the ring.
The Norton fight, too. Ali didn't have a prayer.
Kept getting backed up into the corner.
His gloves up all around his ears.
Norton broke Ali's jaw.
I remember that.
Saw this interview with Ali's trainer.
He said he didn't know what was wrong.
The mouthpiece just kept coming out bloody.
Norton got a lot of shots in,
but still, that was something.
It is not an easy thing to
break a human being's jaw.
Let me assure you...
that takes practice.
Welcome to Oregon.
I'm Holden Ford, this is Bill Tench.
We're with the Federal Bureau of...
Can I get something to drink?
Coffee's okay, I guess.
Could we get him a coffee, please? Actually...
what I'd really love is some cigarettes and a pizza.
Afraid we can't help you with that. Really?
You're the FBI.
We can get you anything in the commissary.
Well, fuck you for wasting my time.
Just messing with you guys.
Do you mind if we record?
I don't know. Tony, do we mind?
不知道 托尼 我们介意吗
You got the paperwork? This was pre approved.
I didn't approve anything.
You don't have to do this, Jerry.
I'll do it, as long as I know I don't have to.
We'll take it from here. Yeah, Tony, I'm good.
这里就交给我们吧 托尼 我没事
we are conducting interviews
with people who've been convicted of violent crimes.
What you discuss with us
cannot be used against you in your applications...
That's your recorder?
Electronics these days keep getting smaller.
Where's the mic?
See that little shiny part on the top?
You should see the cameras coming out, fit in your pocket.
What you discuss with us
cannot be used against you in your applications for parole.
We will be asking you about your family history,
and thought patterns surrounding the crimes
you've been convicted of.
Our goal is to eventually publish a statistical analysis
which will not include your name.
Thought this was gonna break the monotony.
We can go straight to the questions, if you prefer.
Let's discuss the pre crime phase.
Specifically, the day before
you killed your first victim, Laura Sullivan.
I didn't kill Laura Sullivan.
You didn't kill...
They never found her body. I was never convicted of that murder.
But you confessed to it. Nope.
On... June 27, 1969,
you confessed to murdering Laura Sullivan,
Jane Weber, and Kathy Schmidt.
Don't go by that. Why not?
It was given under coercion.
You're saying it was forced?
I am looking at three consecutive life sentences
thanks to an elaborate plot by the Portland PD.
You pleaded guilty to three counts of murder.
They drugged me. Beat me.
Wouldn't let me talk to a lawyer.
Turned away my wife.
Told me they'd go after my kids if I didn't confess.
Are you saying you never met Laura Sullivan?
Yeah, I met her. She was wandering around my front yard.
不 我见过她 她在我家前院里徘徊
Selling encyclopedias. That's right.
That part of the confession is correct? Sure.
she was lost.
It was raining, she couldn't find the right address.
But you told her that you ordered the ecyclopedias. Nope.
You didn't say that?
We got to chatting.
She was an aspiring model.
Not surprising, she was beautiful.
I said I'd take some photos of her.
Is that when you invited her in, took her to the garage? Yep.
然后你请她进屋 带她去了车库 对
Sent your wife and children out to get hamburgers?
I thought we could use privacy.
And then you hit her across the back of her head with a two by four?
Actually, I realized I didn't have any film.
I apologized for wasting her time, showed her out.
Let's talk about the day before you met Laura Sullivan.
Can you tell me what you were feeling?
You consider yourself a bit of a photographer, right, Jerry?
你觉得自己多少算个摄影师 对吧 杰瑞
Got my first camera at 15.
You're into ladies' fashions?
It's women, isn't it? Can't call them ladies anymore.
I've got my magazine subscriptions, I know what's going on.
You subscribe to... Mostly shoe catalogs.
It's my smut.
So you masturbate to it?
That's usually how it works.
Did you masturbate to the photos of your victims?
I'm not sure what you're talking about.
The photos the police found in your garage?
Did you see them?
They're sloppy. I didn't take those.
Actually, we did see them. There's one of them...
Holden, maybe you can find it.
Did you take this picture?
I don't remember.
Ever since the kids were small, I get these blackouts.
It's hypoglycemia, low blood sugar.
I could walk off the roof of a building and not know it.
You see that?
That's you in the photo.
Which means you took this photo.
Which means you killed that girl.
Boy, oh, boy.
Kemper was right.
He said you guys were idiots.
But I'd call you fucking morons.
Big Ed with his big mouth.
I bet you swallowed every fucking line
that came out of him.
And he must have loved it.
Wait a minute. As far as I know,
all his communication is monitored.
What can I say?
Prisons are like knitting circles.
Word gets around.
消息很容易传开 fuck if I know. We should find out.
Well, yeah. It's got to affect the study
if our subjects are all pen pals.
I'll call the superintendent at Vacaville.
Or let's just go back and ask.
What are the chances the warden's gonna know what's going on
right under his fucking nose? You might as well call.
Do you really think that Kemper called us idiots?
It doesn't sound like Ed to me.
We could phone Kemper, ask him directly.
Ask him if he called us idiots?
If he talks to Brudos.
Then we would be idiots.
Excuse me. I believe I'm in the middle seat.
Oh, yeah? Well, that's all right. You can have the aisle.
是吗 没关系 你坐靠过道的吧
Yes, but that's the seat number on my ticket.
It's okay. My partner and I need to talk,
works out for both of us.
I really think it's best if I sat in the seat that's on my ticket.
Does this turn you on?
But it's sexy, right? Well, no.
How different is it from this?
I'd say it's pretty different.
To us, maybe.
This could be in Playboy, easy.
Classic damsel in distress.
So what are you saying, advertising creates psychos?
All men are pervs?
No, but sex is our trigger.
I'm sure Wendy has a theory.
But this? This is how we get to him.
Please. I can switch with you.
I'm enjoying the leg room.
What can I say? Prisons are like knitting circles.
Word gets around.
Fascinating. You think so?
Hypoglycemia? Is he lying or denying?
My vote's with lying.
We can learn from what he doesn't tell us.
You're not always going to get a Chatty Cathy like Kemper.
Well, yeah, the whole talking to Kemper thing.
We called around. There's no evidence they were in touch.
Which doesn't mean they haven't. God, if only...
那不代表他们一定没联♥系过 天啊 要是...
If they're corresponding, it could screw up our thing.
How is the study valid if our subjects can compare notes?
Wouldn't it be... cross contamination?
What would these two guys talk about?
Would Brudos share with Kemper everything he's done?
These are two organized killers, but they're on opposite sides
of the spectrum when it comes to what they'll admit.
Kemper is overly forthcoming.
Brudos denies everything, even when confronted with evidence.
It's a new behavior to sort by:
post conviction admission or non admission of guilt.
You're excited about this.
We didn't get anything useful out of that prick.
I'm telling you, you did.
Maybe in an academic sense, but this isn't only about your study.
Once we've collected all the data, we can all apply it.
You mean, in four years?
I need coffee.
You know, the way he lies is very interesting. How so?
Well, it's just so exaggerated.
He can't possibly expect you to believe him.
We called him on a lie, showed him evidence,
and that ended the interview.
So don't back him into a corner.
Guys, post conviction sorting? What good is that?
伙计们 定罪后分类 这有什么用
We need pre apprehension info, not post.
You know, Bill, all categories are important
for cross referencing and sorting.
I bet you dinner that this guy's got more to add.
You read the story about the girl he held at knifepoint
when he was 15?
Made her undress, took pictures, locked her in a corncrib.
逼她脱♥光 给她拍照 把她锁在玉米仓里
Then pretended to be his own twin brother.
Right. And he talked all about Jerry.
That shows how fucked up he is. Maybe.
There's something about disguise, pretending to be someone else.
It gives him room for what?
He said he started blacking out when his kids were small.
So he isn't averse to talking about his family.
Bill, you could talk about your son.
I'm not discussing my son with him.
Well, you don't have to talk about your family.
You can make one up.
It's just about building rapport.
And he asked for stuff, cigarettes and pizza. Indulge him.
他跟你们要东西 香烟和披萨 那就满足他
When do you want to go back? I don't.
比尔·坦奇 你不在时波特兰警署 汤姆·加里吉尔警探来电达尔茜·库克
Holden. I asked a buddy of mine with the Portland PD.
You might want to...
Hello? Mrs. Cooke?
Mrs. Darcie Cooke? Yes?
Hi. My name is Bill Tench, I'm with the FBI.
Is this about Jer?
About your ex husband, Mr. Brudos.
Am I legally required to talk to you?
Well, no, but I only have a couple of questions.
I'm sorry, I changed my last name for a reason.
She said, "Is this about Jer?"
Those shirts looked good on you.
I can't believe you didn't buy them.
I don't like patterns.
You know you dress the same off duty as on duty?
I'm wearing plain clothes.
Yeah, plain is right.
Seven and a half.
Are you sure? I usually wear a seven.
Your shoes been a little tight lately?
My boots, maybe, a little.
Okay. Tell you what.
I'll bring out seven and a half in all these.
Yes, please. Are my feet getting bigger?
Well, it's just half a size. It's not that big a deal.
I don't want big feet.
You do not have big feet.
That's right, and I don't want them.
No way. Come on.
I don't need new shoes.
You look bitchin'. Can I take it off now?
You don't like them? I look like a Village Person.
Excuse me, sir. Yes.
Could you tell me the largest size you have of that shoe?
Yeah. I'm not sure. I have to go take a look.
对 我不太确定 我得去查查
Whatever it is, could you put a pair on hold for me?
Back for more?
Tell us where to sit.
That won't be necessary this time.
Want to arm wrestle?
How about a smoke?
Well, well, well.
I want him to light me.
How'd you get that scar?
found out I was chasing skirt at OSU.
Came after me with a Ginsu. No, really.
She loved horror films.
We'd appreciate honesty.
About my scar?
We know that you've been jumped in here a few times.
If you got all the answers, what do you need from me?
We want details. We want to know why.
Let's start with the women's clothes.
Could you be more specific?
In her testimony,
your wife said you approached her dressed as a woman.
whatever the police wanted her to say.
But you did approach her dressed as a woman.
Are you married? Yeah.
What's your wife's name? None of your business.
I appreciate honesty.
How does Nancy deal with things that she doesn't understand?
I don't follow.
Let's just say, my wife...
was less than adventurous.
You were young when you got married. Twenty two. She was 17.
你们结婚的时候还年轻 我22 她当时17
What was it about her? She popped my cherry.
That seems old fashioned.
You married the first girl you had sex with?
It wasn't that unusual in 1961.
But you had... "interests" by then.
Stealing lingerie off of clotheslines.
You photographed a neighborhood girl naked when you were 15.
Just a healthy, red blooded American male.
What about the shoes? What shoes?
In your garage.
The women's shoes.
The wife loved to shop.
There were nearly a hundred pairs. Most of them size 16.
Those. Friends sent those to me.
Friends? That's right.
Why would friends send you shoes?
Started as a goof. Got out of hand.
A reward for honesty.
Come on, Jerry. Your friends didn't send you those shoes.
别闹了 杰瑞 鞋不是你朋友送的
What can I say, I'm a collector.
Do you wear them?
I don't have to.
Don't have to, to what?
You know. Get off.
I thought wearing them was part of the allure?
Why's he so interested? I'm really just asking for Darcie.
She still doesn't get it. We caught up on the phone.
Right. Nice woman.
wouldn't talk about me.
She had to divorce me to protect the kids.
And change her last name?
I'm sure it makes it easier for them in school.
What would they say to their friends?
Not just about the murders.
How do you explain the cross dressing?
Dad's a tranny? Dad's a fag?
fuck you, man.
How does it fucking work with the shoes?
He is dying to know.
I'll pass it along to Darcie.
Ten years later, she's still confused.
Give her my love. I'll do that... Jer.
帮我跟她问好 我会的 阿杰
Tony! Get in here! What are you doing?
托尼 进来 你要干什么
Go fuck yourselves.
Come on, they're just questions. I've had enough of your shit.
拜托 问问题而已 我受够了
What's going on? I'm done here.
Wait a minute. I'm done!
Bill, tell him.
We didn't talk to your stupid wife. She hung up on us.
And you're forgetting something.
They're the biggest size they had.
You should have brought me a pair of Nancy's.
fuck you. fuck you.
So when did it start, your interest in women's shoes?
It didn't start. It was always there.
There must have been a moment during puberty
when it became... sexual.
I got my first pair of heels at five.
Five years old? Stilettos.
Found them in the junkyard, brought 'em home.
Never seen anything like 'em before, except in pictures.
Didn't your mom wear heels?
What'd she think when you brought them home?
One time, my mom walked in on me jacking off.
Came right into my bedroom.
I hadn't locked the door. Really?
Yeah. What'd she do?
I'd never seen her so shocked.
It's like I was doing something too horrible to even imagine.
She thought I needed help.
She offered to help?
My mom burned the shoes. The stilettos?
Dragged me into the backyard,
poured kerosene all over 'em, lit 'em up.
That must have been memorable.
She always said she wanted a girl.
She wanted you to be a girl?